Cost of production will always mitigate against the use of these types of coils due to the expense. But, honestly, I'd be much more receptive to all this cognitive science with regard to audio reproduction if it really was based on looking at brain activity or something similar, instead of using statistical methods in an attempt to smooth out data from a bunch of very, very different flawed uncalibrated test instruments - human beings. If you use an appropriate gauge wire, and the proper connectors: you should be golden regardless of how muchor littleyou spend on cables. If it was so easy and conventional to measure, wouldn't you think that either side of the discussion would have done this long ago? Do Power Cords Make a Difference? If you don't trust the electrical engineers that design your products, then I propose you have a whole other set of things to deal with in your life. I dont think Id rely on them for complete resolution of questions like the one addressed here. Measuring at the AC outlet, or measuring a medical device, does not verify the claim that their product alters audio signals. Most audiophiles it seems will never acknowledge the power of sighted bias. Previously, I'd observed some power cords being superior, at least to me. Notice that the other end of the noise-absorbing cordthe IEC endisn't connected to anything; it's just dangling. WARNING: This experiment calls for cutting the jackets of the cables, so DONT use any cables that you arent willing to risk changing! Please read this all the way through, and then TRY IT YOURSELF! Check your speakers and headphones specs and buy whatever you want. Even then, external filters are often employed to get adequate results. The object is to cut all the way through the plastic jacket WITHOUT cutting (or even nicking) the braided (or served) shield under it. When Samuelson plugs a noise-absorbing power cord into a spare receptacle, the audible noise vanishes because that broadband electronic noise has been so dramatically reduced. Sometimes the cure may be worse than the illness. 5:30 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLlddMiIh0s Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800 Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3 Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII I don't know what "belief system" you think I have, but I'm pretty sure you haven't got it right. Once again, lack of supporting evidence is just that. Sub woofers (speakers too) operate at what are considered to be very low frequencies. First we took several steel coat hangers we got from the dry cleaners, cut off the hooks, and bent them straight. Apart from being flexible, it's also very lightweight. Our idea wasnt disproven, and the only thing we definitively proved is consistent with the idea that high-end cables generally arent worth the staggering increase in cost by performance alone. Just to be clear, I am NOT suggesting that all products do what the inventors and purveyors say they do or are worth the money they sell for, and certainly not for everybody. This implies that the component is at the end of this system. That's the way we are, a minefield of cognitive errors and biases. First, lets look at the frequency responses measured from the speaker over each cable because this is going to have the noisiest data. In general, you want the cables you buy to be as short as you can get them while still suiting your needs. Clearly, my expectation bias system is completely broken. These devices belong in the component or in a dedicated power conditioner. Assuming you have a standard AC outlet how far do you go back to upgrade your wiring? Not only have I listened to systems employing Shunyata (and other boutique AC cables) plenty of times: I have had Shunyata cables to test in my own system. Of course, Im not going to sit here and run comparisons like this for every set of cables on the market, because thats foolish and a waste of time. But, how many folks would buy a product where the seller said something along the lines of, "We don't really know why it works. Your comment seems to be based on a very common misconception about sighted bias. Shorter cables provided improvements that were visible. I installed it and gave it about two months of use to be fair. Someone COULD be hearing a difference between cable A and B - that's not ruled out a priori. As stated in #1 the local current and electromagnetic effects directly affect the sonic performance of the component. "There is much more that can be discussed about power delivery but for the sake of brevity I'll cut it short at this point. mpitogo Posts: 464 April 2018 edited April 2018 in Electronics I read another thread that you can hear a difference in power cables. By Luis August 25, 2022 --> It's a well-known fact among audiophiles that the power cables connecting your components can make a big difference in the overall sound quality of your system. Also the cable end should not be corroded. "Shielding can be a two-edged sword. If it's measurablewell..there it is! The misconception goes: "I wasn't expecting to hear a difference, but I heard one, therefore it wasn't due to expectation bias (hence any sighted bias).". The design of a power cable can significantly affect the reactance of these signals within the power supply. Personally, I think being honest with myself is fundamental to doing things. When they are clean them or shorten them a little. Some leads are of flimsy construction, and may reduce the available power for sustained loud passages, however, the difference will rarely exceed 1dB in most cases. Most of us have LOTS of those lying around at home, so finding a pair should be no problem. There are two aspects to power transmission: the electromagnetic wave and the current flow. Thank goodness there is also a wide diversity of manufacturers that create products to serve a variety of tastes.. The Cable makers claim their cables make AUDIBLE differences against other cheaper power cables. If you get them ridiculously long, theres an outside chance of encountering some high frequency noise or signal issues. In fact, Im not aware of any cables made of steel (probably due to the fact that its incredibly rigid), so if this is the high-water mark for cable-to-cable deviation: our myth is more dead than disco. "What I find unfortunate about this is that people who fall for these demos are theoretically insulting themselves by insulting their choice of equipment. audio files/waveforms etc) of an audio system, showing measured differences? Really, just consider the utterly astounding number of dubious things people have become convinced they felt, experienced, heard, saw etc (attend a New Age Fair and you will find honest testimonies to the effects of every single wild device or nostrum sold. 177466-165892 What difference do power cables make? When you have finished that, VERY CAREFULLY make a single long straight cut on each cable, running from the circular cut at one end of the cable to the circular cut at the other end of the same cable. Nothing has been proven to be true or false. The reason I used a wire coathanger here is to illustrate that the improvements in performance are minimal at best, imperceptibly small at worst. Most of the thousands of people that use our power cords started out as skeptics and have answered that question for themselves and have found that power cables and power conditioners can have a profound impact on performance. Reprinted from WiFiHiFi Magazine - Over the next few days, John's inbox filled up with messages weighing in on both sides of the debate. The short answer: yes it will make a difference. The one standard product that continues to be relegated to voodoo status, not just by the uninitiated, but even by people we would otherwise expect to be knowledgeable, is cables. If so, is the measurable artifact in question *audible* (because measuring equipment can measure many things beyond the capabilities of our own senses - that's one reason why we invent measuring equipment). Listening for differences tends to get you concentrating in a way you don't normally concentrate and the mere act of changing your concentration around can influence the outcome. They are a big part of an extensive mesh of connections connecting components of the system together. How much is enough to spend on cables? And no, I don't believe anything you've written in your response, as there are several issues with continuity in your response. We have yet to find a component that cannot be improved by replacing the power cord. But maybe theres something I missed, and maybe that something could be heard by people. I hypothesize that the power levels needed to transmit a signal to modern audio equipment far exceed the level where the difference in cables would matter, provided the gauge of the wire is sufficient to satisfy the requirements of the given system. This should be true for two reasons: However, Ill take it a step further: Im going to hypothesize that very few peopleif any can tell the difference between high-quality cables and cables consisting of nothing but interconnects and coat hangers. By that, I don't mean that I was expecting no changes. note: 99 times out of 100, its the room and the air around the speakers). Good on them! We used a loopback on an audio interface in order to measure the response, so theres no measurement data that could have been altered or affected by the room. When it's placed in series--inline--the further improvement isn't audible, but it is substantial. (This is to connect the common mode current paths typically found in an actual home audio system.). "Many components use a power inlet IEC that has an integrated "L" or "pi" filter. That's what keeps all these types of demos, and the AC cable maker claims, so suspicious. On the other hand, the shielding may induce re-radiated fields onto the cable or component that it is being used in. In fact, in some situations for some kinds of noise currents, the power supply is not even part of the circuit. Most components use FWBR (full wave bridge rectifier) power supplies that generate an incredible amount of transient noise when the rectifiers switch off. Of course the Shunyata products filter as depicted in the video. GO DO IT NOW! I also wasn't expecting that it would be better or worse. Do power supply units/cables make a difference in sound quality? So, just increasing the wire size is not the easy answer that some might think. I don't know exactly what you're seeing here, but the clarity of the signal has improved dramatically. This doesn't mean of course we should all turn our fun hobby in to a science demo every time we want to buy something new. In the first case, a single test instrument, imperfect as she or he might be, is observing the performance over a variety of conditions. Each of the metal's inherent "sonics" can be ameliorated by careful adjustment of the other materials used in the construction of the final cable. It's almost impossible to design a power supply that is so poor that it *doesn't* already do what these filtering cables do. We usedFLAC music files (24-bit, 96kHz) to put these cables to the test, and still: no change. ]]>MAKE THIS CUT ON BOTH CABLES. Even if we consider strict limits, the differences from cable to cable are inaudible. Why is it that somebody making observations over a period of a couple months, of, say, a piece of audio equipment is considered to be scientifically inferior to a group of people observing over a few hours? Think of the fun youre going to have. (I'm no electrical engineer btw. Ive plotted the data to show only the differences between each test run. If your power amp comes with heavier gauge AC cable, as many do (mine does) the Shunyata cable isn't going to make a difference in current capability, and in any case a 14ga cable can be bought for 20 bucks. Frothing at the mouth dogmatism? Where we found some issues that were potentially audible with the measured response of the speaker, there are none with the cable itself. Orwowthey must have finally broken in!!". The quality of these devices varies dramatically. Thats pretty damning. For control wires, we selected the Mogami TS patch cable, and a mystery 14-gauge oxygen-free copper braided cablealthough in the course of our recordings we tested other cables, including offerings from Kemper, LyxPro, and others to check to make sure our results were repeatable. Generally speaking, the more capacitors and inductors that you have in a circuit, the more complex the dynamic interactions will be between the devices. Unless you use battery power, you're going to be using power cables that connect to the AC mains. Rather than have me try to explain all the subtleties of this, I suggest you consult Ott's and Morrison's books as two well regarded references on these subjects. Were also not going to entertain endless questions about what equipment we used, or opposing experiences. But subtle degrees of audio performance are not the only consideration when putting together an audio system. Justification: High end power cables have better connectors, shielded wire, and better wire (higher conductivity and flexibility). If after trying our product you prefer another - great. Intuitively, you might think that a small wire would sound thin in the bass region. Speaker cables can (and sometimes do) sound different with a given amplifier and loudspeaker combination, even where they are well designed and of reasonable gauge. Head to https://squarespace.com/cheapaudioman to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code cheapaudiomanAudioquest NRG-Z3 https://ho. Aside from my wife, who is a musician and gets an emotional rush from reading sheet music (not a lot of help), I don't need to impress anybody else. It is also proven in listening. As I said I hold no a priori belief that AC cables can not make a sonic difference. I assume you didn't hear lower noise floors, etc., with current capabilities being the same. Today, were going to try to prove one way or another whether or not high-end cables make a difference for your equipment. 1: Length and diameter of the power cord The length of your power cord should be chosen based on the distance between your television or hi-fi and your wall socket. "That's what keeps all these types of demos, and the AC cable maker claims, so suspicious.". When you are finished, you should be able (with your fingers or using a pair of longnose pliers) to pull each cables jacket off in one long continuous strip. I'd think that might be characterized as good ol' critical thinking, eh? Going into examples probably would be counterproductive here, but Ill say that while their observations are often very accurate, as far as they go, they are definitely not complete. We usually call these other frequencies noise or Electromagnetic Interference (EMI). Choosing a power cable is fairly easy. You should only want the power supplies to conduct the 50/60 Hz AC power and nothing more. After 3 years of testing, we concluded that just about anything and everything that is inserted in or around the electromagnetic field of a power circuit has an audible effect. ), "They never actually demonstrate AUDIBLE NOISE has been removed from AUDIO systems.". Thats not enough smoothing to truly account for room-related issues, but its enough to demonstrate our point. The mere act of comparing what you know - or just think - to be two different items can itself be enough to get you to perceive a difference. That's a high-end Shunyata cordthis one costs around $1500, far less than the most expensive cords on the market--coiled up like a snake or a slinky. Looks like the deviation in our last chart came from the room. Not much in there to disagree with. Its a lot less effort to just buy a product thats going to be a lot more easy to use and durable from the get go. Surely, if power cables make a clearly audible difference, these two wires should be literally worlds apart in terms of quality and should also easily show differences. The engineers of most any power supply - and I know a mess of them - would beg to differ. Obviously we are not going to "give away the farm" and discuss all of our findings, but there are some very basic observations that I can share with you. Once I did thatthe sound was indistinguishable between the two cords. One or more tones are applied to the device under test. Power supply systems really should have great rejection of both incoming noise currents as well as outgoing noise currents. Sometime back in the last decade, I purchased a Shunyata power cable from Music Direct, who was having an overstock sale. And you seem to be special pleading on behalf of the cable makers. If one sound is <1dB higher or lower than another sound of the same frequency, you shouldnt be able to hear the difference. Plugs are VERY important as regular of the shelf are usually very rough, and each dimple and peak in the plug radiate and receive noise. A power supply cleans all of this up. "A power cable on the other hand is not transmitting a signal. Lack of these measurements, by anybody, suggests to me that either nobody cares about this, for reasons I don't have an answer to, or that it's too hard to do with existing test regimes. That is a way of looking negatively at the world as a whole, and I don't play that way. The cables make no difference crowd, which exists in large numbers here at AVS, is a kind of secular religion, IMO. While we didnt have a large sample size, its more than the 2008 studys sample set, so Im happy with this. Theres nothing wrong with wanting cables to match your decor or shelling out for additional features, but be honest with yourself: dont claim they sound better. But is the effect audible: --> Ah, there's core of the argument. Cables, including power cables, make (or at least can make) a significant difference, but there is no need to spend a lot of money. Only at 10kHz does the deviation cross the threshold of audibility, and even then: thats a very narrow range of sound that will absolutely get lost in music. Waitwhat just happened? Schiit Modi 2 that I have tested is horribly designed. The power cable is effectively part of the primary winding of the power transformer. (https://shunyata.com/videos/). Everything is relative and the designer must weigh the sonic value of each part when designing a product. Additionally, you dont want to be responsible for screwing up your equipment or house if you mess up somewhere and short something. The first question is do power cords make any difference at all? You're basically taking the opinions of a bunch of people and molding them into scientific truth. After sanding the zinc off of the termination points and prepping the reference cable to be the exact same length as the coathanger cable, we were ready to go. If they have identified measurable phenomena, claim to have fixed the problemit's obvious the results *should be measurable*. Amazon's Lightning Deals Audiophile Speakers on Sale at AudioAdvice Everyone agrees that speakers sound different. "Our tests with coils and chokes indicate that (in general, with exceptions) that any coil or choke that is placed in-line with the power circuit is harmful to dynamics. I hope you're not expecting an argument from me. I would avoid Audioquest, as everything they make is way overpriced. There is just hard work, occasional inspiration and lots of testing.. Conversely, we have some cables with wire as large as 1gauge that sound powerful in the bass but are also flabby and irregular sounding. "A speaker cable conducts an audio signal from the power amplifier to the speaker. In fact, the effects are so demonstrable, so obvious, that power cords are fast assuming their proper position as the most important cables in your system. I could be wrong, of course. It just does for a lot of people. Heres how consistent both the control cable and the coathanger cable were over our sampling period. On a personal note I would like to say that I was an audiophile long before I was a manufacturer of audio products. It wasn't. If that statement is inaccurate, please point me to my error. That certainly sounds like a bias to me. So, obviously whatever expectation bias I have is non-functional. Some contend the number is 3dB for music, but as it is with everything regarding human perception: that number is a moving target. That probably describes most audiophiles, but they're not the ones you see writing all the opinionated posts. And, although I'm not a fanboy of Shunyata, at least they're trying to measure what they can. 3. Weve seen that before. Againthat's why blind testing, placebo-controlled trials etc are used in many areas of scientific study. On the third, the coathanger won again, but by a margin of 35.4% to 35%; hardly convincing, and very close to a normal distribution (aka, how a random number generator might vote). If other people like what I have created - great. If you do this correctly, AND CONTINUE TO BEND THE CABLE AS YOU CONTINUE TO CUT THE JACKET, the back (the non-cutting edge) of the blade will just slide along on the shield; the sharp cutting edge will sever the jacket without additional effort; and youll be able to make the long straight cut from one (circle cut) end of the cable to the other (circle cut) end of the cable quickly and easily, with no danger at all to either the shield or your fingers. If you want braided cables, those are great! DO IT! Answer: Most of the EMI that affects the audio quality of a system is generated by the audio components themselves.