The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. My uncle has this neat old revolver that he doesn't know much about Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . Key Findings. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. Can anybody shed some light here? That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. Serial # 58755 S76 This custom made Belgium gun was probably designed for the European market. I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). JavaScript is disabled. Does it reach the touch hole? Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. CLEMENT, J. Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. Hi Gerard and everyone! Gun Indentification - German Hunting Guns Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. Bernard Victor & Cie I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. Courard firearms books bibliary. Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. Can be without star and ring. Very helpfull once again. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. and BELGIUM had a glut of old, obsolete flint lock and percussion gun parts left over from years past. Thank you for On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. OldGuns Newsletter . Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. It was mandatory post-1924. old belgian gun makers - Telecore Digital Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. Bodson TH. Old Belgian musket help | The Muzzleloading Forum I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. A Beginner's Guide to Collecting Vintage Side-by-Side Shotguns Coleye M. N. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Comblain All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from HI, John. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. 1899-2011 Modern Guns. Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Thank y'all again! Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. Ancion Marx The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. Cachoir Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as the 20th century. Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. Tel: 01707 709372; Arendt Maurice Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. this location now so you can return often. Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. A "Greener" double? Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Serial Numbers. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. Any idea how to date it? Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. The Baby Browning in . Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. Bertrand Joseph The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. Please note! Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. How do I price this piece? I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. Colette Victor Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. Thank you Jerry. %PDF-1.3 Bookmark [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Measuring the bore diameter and chamber Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! The significance or purpose. Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloadersthink of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snidermany pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. Bernimolin As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Bastin Frres Gun Barrel Proof Marks. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). I can send pictures of it. Berleur Guillaume or E.C. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Bovy Thodore Joseph Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. Belgian Shotgun Identification Guide | Shotgun Forum The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. These include the Rifles & Musket Information. Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. . If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. Belgium Shotguns | Pricing Guides Dictionary & Values I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. Prices: side-by-side, from 53,000 + VAT; over-and-under, from 65,000 + VAT. I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. Clment Charles Philibert Anonymes I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). 1840-1860. this book online and pay it through Paypal. Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. Due to the interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. Collette Lopold Chaumont M.J. Rich engraved. Testing the gun On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. Bronne Gustave Order this book online and pay it through Buy Belgium Shotguns For Sale At Auction | Invaluable Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Hi, Jeremy. In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof Sorry I can't be more helpful. PDF BELGIAN PROOF MARKS - - Hunting.be will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Bazin F.J. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. Belgian Liege gunmakers (G to K) - Volume 3 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Colot A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. Consignment Sale Information. Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Counet Philippe of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. Braekers Charles & Cie Technically the company is owned by Belgium firearms maker FN Herstal. thank you. I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of Thomas Jefferson. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. Baltus - Wilmotte After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 The Model 1889 Mauser: A Rifle That Saved Paris M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Are Damascus-Barreled Shotguns Safe to Shoot? If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. to identify the manufacturer. I'll test it very cautiously. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. Some older foreign marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Search. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Counet - Genot There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. Antique Double Barrel Shotgun: Identifying, Valuing, and Buying Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. As I've said, I'm not an expert. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. 10 Biggest American Gun Companies Share a Rich History - Wide Open Spaces It could be of relatively recent manufacture. On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Thanks. Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. (copy right L.R. The Any info will help. Second Variation serial numbers 707517-851751 (7,000 produced) - 708921. Thanks again for the help! 3 vols. Home | Login | Register. I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 Boden Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? Bischop Pierre for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. List of firearm brands - Wikipedia Can you add any details? Proof and Armorers' Marks - The Book of the Pistol Gun Proof Marks, Stamps and Date Codes - firearmsguide Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. Information, NRA Shotguns - Belgium Double for sale - Guns International Bultot Jean Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. Search. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. How does it open? Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. Proof Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Charlier Ch. Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. JavaScript is disabled.
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