This gun now wears factory synthetic grips which are decent but could use more girth behind the trigger guard. I can usually keep 1.5" groups with it at 25 yards if I do my part. But you guys need to practice more. Bullseye is one of the oldest smokeless pistol powders and still one of the most popular. My Dad has advanced arthritis and could not longer easily work his auto loaders. Oh, I practice with it. (Note: These are near maximum loads (in some cases ARE MAXIMUM), you should use 10%. No more lead in the barrel or on my hands. swatmag.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Alliant listed 3.6 gr Bullseye as maximum (15000 psi) in 38 Special and 3.8 as max in 38 Special PLUS P (17000 psi) with 158 LSWC bullets. I could knock out a pretty substantial chunk of my shooting needs with only these three loads. Its like a pellet gun with a little noise and smoke if using black powder. Thats what the Cavalry Board asked for over a century ago, and thats what weve got. Javascript is required. 38 special is a great cartridge. The majority of my shooting with .38 has taken place with soft lead bullets. My experience has always been with bullseye powder. I thought the DR program was NRA, not CMP. I stopped handloading around 1985, so Im not certain how much technology has changed in that area, but in general it sounds like our experiences are similar. Caveat: I have decided that I want to be prepared for threat scenarios that include stopping a terrorist or spree-killer (the odds of which I fully recognize is statistically zero). Jacketed bullets create a bit more wear on the rifling, but its better than trying to wire brush out a bunch of lead build up. Installed some wood boot grips, modified them with grooves at the bottom of each side panel, similar to those on Pach. Recoil in that gun is less than most 45 ACP 1911s I have shot, and its still got around 500-600ft lbs of energy which is more than enough for feral hogs around the ranch back home. Two years into my second century a Colt MK IV Series 80 LTWT Commander 45 ACP still delivers the big medicine, but I have become enthralled with a new wheel gun- a Charter Arms Professional 32 H&R Magnum. In half a dozen different sixguns, it ranged from accurate to spectacular. I carried a lightly customized 4 inch heavy barrel model 10 for years, with a black cerakote job. 7.8 gr Blue Dot 1,170 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 7.0 gr Pressure: 15,700 4.5 gr Bullseye 1,085 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 4.1 gr Pressure: 14,900 I really enjoy Trail Boss and use it extensively for plain lead and plated bullets. 9 mm, .40 sw, 45 acp, .44 mag. Rated 5.00 out of 5 based on 9 customer ratings. Thank you for the article. There are many fun uses for buckshot. Load it like Trail Boss. defensive ammo. IMHO .38 special is just fine for self defense, but just not enough to crack engine blocks. When I say that theres rarely a wrong way to do it, I really mean it. If there is a search function for these forums (didn't see one) I'd be happy to use that too Go to the Alliant website and find the data for Unique and Bullseye. In several of the guns, the old standby couldnt quite duplicate the level of precision they exhibit with current production wadcutters from Black Hills or Winchester, but in each case, the load shot close to or right on the sights and nearly held the X ring. The pistol or revolver of good quality is vital. You gotta try the S&W M342 Airlight TI. Please enable javascript before you are allowed to see this page. Have a Tritium sight and laser on it to boot. : 13,300 16,800 Starting Powder: 6.0 gr Starting Velocity: 1,266 You may end up with one "not" clearing the barrel. I'm guessing they still go bang, and leave the gun to go downrange. Any pistol competitions yet? You can fit 7.1gr of powder under the 125gn JHP bullet? .38 Special is a lot more comfortable in a service size revolver like my Model 10. Dont know where #1 Buckshot can be found, but the Speer shot cups and UNIQUE powder currently easy enough to find. I only wish the brass was more available locally. I dont own anything in .38 special yet, but I have plans to buy a .357 magnum revolver in near future, so I already reloaded couple thousands of rounds in .38 and .357. Think a lot of people would find that a .44 special or .45 Colt, in a decent revolver, a viable alternate to a pistol. with #2 Lyman duplicate. One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=1, I also have the Berry's 125gr plated flat point bullet and I am trying to find a min and max load with unique powder. The Lyman is handy for sizing or priming while youre watching a movie. Nothing, they dont need any. The SP101 is far more comfortable to shoot but not so much fun to carry. 38 Special +P 18,500 We look at three classics: one each in .45 ACP, .38 Special, and 9mm. A circa 1918 Colt gobbled them up, as did several other 1911s that can be particular about bullet profile. Biggest problem I had was the lubricating cases for sizing and then cleaning them afterwards, I guess grit was somehow scratching the cases after getting stuck in the lube. 3 gr of WST in a 38 spl case with 125 gr plated bullet is a very light load. Boolit Grand Master. At 25 you can get away with a lighter load. During my first half century on this planet, my caliber of choice for defense was 45 ACP- but for everything else it was always 38 SPL. in 158 weight berry's bullet 3.8 grains of bullseye with a taper crimp. I get okay accuracy with 4.4 of W-W 231 and 125s, depending on what bullet is used. I bought him as a gift a 642 with the black rubber grips, a few speedloaders w/big knob tops, and Hornady 125 grain FTX loads. I've tried Berry's plated as well as Remington. This Cast Reloading Bullet feeds great in automatics and has excellent accuracy in both the 9mm and 38 Super. Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above). The mild recoil of the mid-range load is a perfect mate to the .38s that most shooters own these daysthe airweight J-Frame or equivalent. A cold header, at their basic level, are multi ton power presses laying down on their side. That blunt-ended bullet cut a clean hole all the way through whatever its modest velocity allowed it to penetrate. I thought about trying 2.5 gr. The swaged bullets are soft enough that they expand even at mild velocities where a JHP or hard cast cant. I still think highly of the LCR but would shoot only 148 grain wadcutters in .38 Special or .32 H&R Magnums in the .327 Magnum model. The upside of the grainage is that the small charges mean more loaded rounds per pound of powderhelpful since Bullseye can take a while to reacquire once the container is empty. Notes: primer: CCI 500; case: Speer; NOTE: All loads are maximum. Shot placement is just as important if not more. But for plinking, they'd be fine. In a day you can make over 100,000 bullets. Just dont shoot a rabbit with this load if you want to be able to eat any of it. Great gun. I like the smell of Bullseye, dont mind wiping the handguns down after a range day, and the dark soot that accumulates on my support hand when shooting wheelguns in particular just reminds me to wash up. Hence the lack of load data from just about anybody. As you move up in loads, you at least need the gas check on the bottom of the bullet to prevent gas melting the lead and fouling the barrel. The flyers tend to be severe. I, like Spartacus, find the SAAMI recommendations an interesting spec for comparative purposes. Midway has it in stock. With all the loads available, you can surely find one within recoil tolerance. What overal length of the cartridge? A 158 SWCHP at 850-875 fps from a snub. I am way shy of 70 years old and I love me some .38 Special. These grips seem quite comfortable and afford a pinkie finger rest for improved control albeit with a certain loss of concealability. Everyone here who has tried plated bullets including myself, have had disappointing results in accuracy. Most modern revolvers chambered for .38 SPL are rated to +P, so there is room for error, but care must still be taken. And if youre doing that with a snub.let me know I wanna watch you shoot em. Something like the Ruger GP100 or S&W 686 yup, theyre the best caliber for those size revolvers. Years back, for indoor matches I teamed the heavier S&W Model 28 with 3.4 grains of the same powder and bullet in . Damn. These loads are for my wife's revolver. So, I'm guessing the pressure curve isn't as severe as some of the faster burners. 4.2 gr. Seems like everyone is all orgasmic about bigger, faster, more of, etc. If I get to see him shoot those loads, it would be worth the price of a new keyboard! is so simple. Even slower powders may provide more consistent speeds and will be tested in the future (No. Recoil was so nasty that I quit after five shots and saved the rest of the box for my 6 Model 19 .357. Bullseye is a little smoky, a lot sooty, and has a distinct odor. When I teach other people the basics of reloading, I teach them on the .38 SPL. That's usually +P power level in .38 Special. Required fields are marked *. What I have found most remarkable is how well some pistols that typically fling wide groups have clustered the semiwadcutters. You are absolutely correct. Never got around to trying the T grips. 7, No. The Bullseye powder pushed five into two inches flat for another 1911 that is typically a four-inch gun. Ideal load in a 2 J Frame .38. At one time or another, I also owned and shot a M38 Bodyguard (nka the 638), a M37 Chiefs Special (now the 637), a M60 (which is a tad heavier but no more user-friendly), and a couple of others. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:00 am, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:36 pm, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:46 pm, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:45 pm, byPacFltShooter Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:50 pm. I have read some posts online from people who claim that it makes no difference whether the bullets are swaged or cast; and they can be loaded to the same velocity, but the swaged bullets will lead up a barrel faster because the lead is softer. They all shot horrible at 25 yards. * All PLUS P loads for guns designed for it (20,000 PSI), (Cowboy loads shot in 7 1/2 bbl.revolver no need to reduce), ALL THESE LOADS ARE PLUS P, SPECIAL HOT 21,000 PSI. No sh!t. I have 4 handguns that will shoot .38. Bullet seating depth is very forgiving. There is a difference in the manufacturing process of swaged bullets. Where many shooters quickly tire of even standard-pressure .38 in the little five-shooters, the wadcutter invites cylinder after cylinder of practice. .38 J frame.) I can shoot this load at speeds I cant normally reach with .45. It doesnt appear like there is much of an advantage in using WST with lighter weight bullets. There seems to be a dearth of information using WST powder for the 38 Spl cartridge. Super cheap and easy to make and would likely be a very effective defense ammo against wildlife that might be a threat to me as the two balls will spread an inch or two from each other at close range. Pasted as rich text. Your previous content has been restored. Unique was a sooty powder so Ive switched to W231. I also find the LCR .357 enjoyable to shoot with all .38s and most .357s. I dont bother polishing my .38 brass because I just dont let it fall in the mud or dirt. And it isnt my first rodeo with a J-frame. Which left me with the last two. Nickle cases look pretty but dont seem to take the number of resizings that plain brass cases do. I probably shoot more 38s than everything else put together but a Dillon 750 makes loading a lot faster. I think you will find since the .38 special is headspaced on the rim your case length is very important to achieve your best accuracy. When using a 158 gr. The beauty of shooting a .38 is that you can easily practice at the ranges you'd fight at using basically any cheap bullet at minimal expense. My sq. I may have to rethink my plan. Components add up to far less than even generic grade factory ammo. Groups with these loads ranged from 1.25 inches to just under two inches at 25 yards across a handful of pistols. The 36s greater weight makes it much easier to shoot than the 638. I found the plated wadcutters to have NO accuracy. Think that if a .44 spl. Send the cylinder out to get cut for moon clips and adapted to 9mm, so you can shoot both 38/357/9mm and use all on moon clips. When I finally nabbed my own canisters of Bullseye, the first load I spun up was 2.7 grains under Hornadys hollow-base wadcutters. Or does the CMP make the rules for DR, and the NRA admins it? I load it almost exclusively though with either a powder coated or plated 125 grn bullet. 125 gr plated or 125 gr lead RN. This represents a great start, and if thats all you do, youll still be far better off than the majority of the population. Load manuals often advise against downloading .38 Special jacketed loads to prevent squibs, especially the 110 and 125 grain bullets. Thanks for the excellent article, Josh! True enough that it doesnt make power factor for Custom Defensive Pistol in IDPA or major in USPSA competition. Currently using Titegroup, but started out with, and loaded many thousands of rounds, with Bullseye. ES 56 SD 24 PMC Eldorado Starfire +P 125 gr. Winchesters 231 or WSL are also good powders for the .38 special. The more serious concern for some loaders is that the small charges of fast-burning powder take up little room in the case, making it possible to double charge a cartridge and exceed safe pressure. RN, 160 gr. Some medium fast powders would work with lighter weight bullets. Word to the wise: all handgun cartridges (with the likely exception of .44 Magnum and maybe even .357 Magnum) are underpowered for self-defense. Always make sure your lead bullets have been sized and lubricated. I realized that I had hit a very special count for a very special cartridge: 20,000 rounds of .38 Special. A significant difference in speeds is usually noted. Load cut these cards at five yards out of this Model 15. Hence I carry a semi-auto pistol chambered in .40 S&W. Very versatile cartridge. Heck, 38s in a J frame arent fun- theres no way a 327 Mag isnt worse. As I said I am not familiar with your frame and suspect it is one of the latest models out by Smith. HAVE FUN JP. I shoot almost exclusively cast lead from my handguns. Loath and Loathe are different words that mean different things. This post was originally published in 2018. I guess its out of production now- I havent seen it (or heard of it) in years. Also some WSF. Would .44 Special be somewhat similar to .38, in terms of ease of reloading, case life, etc.? I found some data for 148 and 158 gr bullets but no published data on the 125s. Forget about it. Yes, I had no issues with the 38 SPL, but the 32 is just more FUN- especially when I get seven shots of it in a revolver the size of J frame! Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above). : 1.475" Powder: 6.0 gr 6.9 gr Vel. 4.) Most of these are at the upper end. Last I looked still available at Brownells. You trade a little less speed for a little more mass but at snubnose velocities I really think the standard 158 grain slug gives the best penetration. The 919 case is tapered and therefore wider at the base than the .38 special is. In fact, Hornady's handloading manual includes .357-inch bullets in the load data for the .38 Super, specifically 125-grain and 140-grain XTP bullets, along with .355-inch bullets, and their one remaining .356-inch bullet, the 125-grain HAP. Even better, is get some 38 S&W brass. 594/600 at the real distances of 24 rnds at 50 yds, 24 rnds at 25 yes, and 12 rnds at 7.5 yds. This. Love my 642 for concealed carry, but have an SP101 (also a snubby) in .38 special (only) for use on the range. And Vihtavouris N320 and N321 fall in this range for burning times. In fact, in the past I specifically sought out revolvers chambered in 38 SPL only, knowing I would never be putting a 357 Mag in it (I carried a 4 GP100 chambered in 38 SPL as a duty sidearm in the early 90s). The Speers do occasionally and the Magnus a little more. Since it hit the market 103 years ago, it has been a staple for most handloaders and the backbone of most accuracy loads in the popular calibers. You can't rely on this because not all variables for YOUR cases and chamber and loading length, etc. of Bullseye with Lee's 125gr RN mold in a 38 special with so-so accuracy. I don't know what bullets you have, but Berry's recommends per their website to use hard cast data for their plated bullets. Hornady also has load data for the 110-grain .357 XTP for the lower-pressure .38 Automatic. He loves this gun and keeps it in reach 24/7. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion, I'm looking for an accurate load using 125gr bullets. TITEGROUP AND 125GR 38 SPECIAL LOAD DATA Ammunition-Gunsmithing Reloading Forum Register Notices Consider Becoming A Supporting Member Click HERE For The Benefits Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here Thread Tools Display Modes # 1 01-24-2016, 05:38 AM RONALD HENSLEY Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Waynesville NC Posts: 114 Likes: 12 .38 Special: What Ive Learned After 20,000 Rounds, Stacey Abrams Whopper: No one believes in eroding the Second Amendment, Scottsdale Home Owner Uses Shotgun to Stop Naked Home Invader Caught in His Childs Room [VIDEO], Liberty Ammunitions Innovative Personal Defense Rounds are Lighter, Go Faster, and Hit Harder. The gun has appeared on TTAG before and has remained unchanged as far as accessories. 9mm 125 grain RN Lead Hard Cast Bullet. Accurates No. That being the case, I truly NEED as much ammunition as possible and the ability to defeat soft barriers such as auto windshields, sheet metal, drywall, doors, etc. Any discussion of Bullseye is incomplete without mentioning a few of the downsides. I'd rather shoot my .45 then. Accurate's No. Based on this Id load some at 3.3 and 3.5 and see what you get, but Id never exceed 3.8 ever. Lord only knows how many cartridge cases I hammered with a plastic mallet into that Lee, it had to be thousands. The only way to shoot both 9mm and .38 special is to have two separate cylinders timed to the revolver. I keep it under my seat in case I get an unwanted intruder and I cant get to my IWB semi auto. Is it considered safe to down load a cartridge that far under starting? The instructors worked magic in many cases, but having a load like this to gradually work shooters onto full-strength loads would have been a great tool. Regulator, SBSS #2255, Pawnee Station, Ro I & II. Because we have no action to cycle, the novice reloader can afford to be off a bit if they have an entry-level scale or powder dispenser. . THAT TIME IS BETTER SPENT LEARNING HOW TO SHOOT THE REVOLVER IN THE RAPID FIRE PORTION. A little shopping around might do better, as would casting the lead bullets. I dont miss lubing casescarbide is king! The reason I love the .38 SPL so much is because its so elastic in function. My brother put CT laser grips on his wifes M36. Tim: The Lyman 49th edition lists the accuracy loads for their cast bullets. Not sure how that translates to Bullseye powder. accuracy. Disclaimer, I own or owned all the super calibers out there except the casull, theyre all fun and quite useful in some scenarios, but dont discount the old timer. I once had to quote the South Carolina Supreme Court when they had spelled it loathe., Regards, Yeah, my wifes last gun, with +P it actually HURTS! less to start.) ), I very much wanted to start with some tried-and-true Bullseye loads, but it took an epic scavenger hunt across many months to find a canister of the elusive classic. But I think I was still loading the cases from that first box when I quit loading 18 years later! The Internet Pedant Congratulations on spelling loath right. She ran two cylinders of 100 grain wad cutters and gave it back to me. I think the 158 lrn is more accurate then the swc but that's just me. 148-grain wadcutter brings accuracy that begs the shooter to test their limits. Over 20,000 rounds, Ive found that theres rarely a wrong way to do .38 SPL. June 13, 2016 in 9mm/38 Caliber. Does anyone have any luck with Jacked Bullets. Jack it up a notch and go with .327 Federal Magnum. As anyone learns quickly, first thing that needs to be done is to replace the small factory S&W grips (I use Hogue) so you can hold onto the gun. I did find a 145 grain Lead HP with a rounded ogive (like the last NyClad) on Gunbroker that opens really well if you get above 800 fps. I find the Pachmayr Compac grips on my 640 reduce the slap of full-boat .357 to less than that on my 3 M65 (w/ wood Altamont grips) or my 4 686 (Pachmayr Gripper Professional grips.) That revolver is aluminum and cannot handle the pressure of 9MM. This wire is then fed into a machine called a cold header. I recently picked up a 396 Nightguard and am a convert to the 44 Special! Do not use anything but light loads and lead bullets in these older revolvers. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion. Note the dark band of lube on the 3 lead bullets. And yes I appreciate them for a hunting gun because of their fine accuracy and find trigger pulls (older classic guns). The proof pressure MAP specified by SAAMI is 29,500 psi for both rounds. YouTube has plenty of reloading channels or the Reloaders Network webpage has more info as well. BrianEnos.com I.E. Bullseye is primarily associated with .38 and .45after all, it says right on the bottle: Great for .38 Special and .45 Auto target loads. But it is equally at home in high-velocity auto loads.
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